SCARS Insight Interview: Tim McGuinness, Ph.D. talks with Brett Johnson [VIDEO]

Last Updated on by SCARS Editorial Team

Tim McGuinness, Ph.D. talks with Brett JohnsonBrett Johnson He is a Cybersecurity, Cybercrime, Fraud, and Identity Theft Expert. Keynote Speaker, Consultant, Writer, Podcast Personality. Former USA Most Wanted Cybercriminal, Identity Thief, Hacker, and Original Internet Godfather. He is also an Advisor to SCARS. Brett is one of the top experts in the world on cybercrime, identity theft, fraud, and cybersecurity. His knowledge is unique. His education in cybercrime does not come from a book, he has hands-on training. His knowledge is from the criminal side of things and has an understanding of cybercrime that the majority of people on the planet will never possess. [VIDEO]

About ScamsScams A Scam is a confidence trick - a crime -  is an attempt to defraud a person or group after first gaining their trust through deception. Scams or confidence tricks exploit victims using their credulity, naïveté, compassion, vanity, irresponsibility, or greed and exploiting that. Researchers have defined confidence tricks as "a distinctive species of fraudulent conduct ... intending to further voluntary exchanges that are not mutually beneficial", as they "benefit con operators ('con men' - criminals) at the expense of their victims (the 'marks')". A scam is a crime even if no money was lost. & CybercrimesCybercrimes Cybercrime is a crime related to technology, computers, and the Internet. Typical cybercrime are performed by a computer against a computer, or by a hacker using software to attack computers or networks. In Today’s World

SCARSSCARS SCARS - Society of Citizens Against Relationship Scams Inc. A government registered crime victims' assistance & crime prevention nonprofit organization based in Miami, Florida, U.S.A. SCARS supports the victims of scams worldwide and through its partners in more than 60 countries around the world. Incorporated in 2015, its team has 30 years of continuous experience educating and supporting scam victims. Visit www.AgainstScams.org to learn more about SCARS. Insight Interview

A New Video from SCARS! A SCARS Insight Interview

The World Of Cybercriminals & Scams Is Not What Many Tell You About

It is a world of both professionals and services that allow almost anyone to become a cybercriminal with ease.

Hear about this world as SCARS’ Managing Director Tim McGuinness, Ph.D. talks with Brett Johnson former cybercriminals and now an Advisor to the FBIFBI FBI - Federal Bureau of Investigation The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) is the domestic intelligence and security service of the United States and its principal federal law enforcement agency. Operating under the jurisdiction of the United States Department of Justice, the FBI is also a member of the U.S. Intelligence Community and reports to both the Attorney General and the Director of National Intelligence. A leading U.S. counter-terrorism, counterintelligence, and criminal investigative organization, the FBI has jurisdiction over violations of more than 200 categories of federal crimes, including financial fraud. and SCARS.

This exclusive SCARS video is presented unedited, recorded on November 19, 2021.

To learn more about SCARS is www.AgainstScams.org

To learn more about Brett Johnson visit www.AnglerPhish.com

Video Transcript

Please Note: This transcript was generated by speech to text software and may contain errors. We apologize in advance for  any errors.


Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Welcome everyone this is Doctor Tim McGuinness.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

I’m the managing director of the Society of Citizens Against Relationship ScamsSCARS SCARS - Society of Citizens Against Relationship Scams Inc. A government registered crime victims' assistance & crime prevention nonprofit organization based in Miami, Florida, U.S.A. SCARS supports the victims of scams worldwide and through its partners in more than 60 countries around the world. Incorporated in 2015, its team has 30 years of continuous experience educating and supporting scam victims. Visit www.AgainstScams.org to learn more about SCARS., Scars, Scars is a government registeredgovernment-registered It means to be registered with departments or agencies of the government. In the case of SCARS, we are registered with state and federal governments in the United States, Europe & Asia. SCARS is registered as a crime victims' assistance nonprofit with agencies of the Department of Justice and Department of Homeland Security. And is incorporated in the State of Florida as a nonprofit corporation. crime, victims Assistance and Crime Prevention Organization based in Miami, FL.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Yeah, we are a former partner of the Department of Homeland SecurityDepartment of Homeland Security The United States Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is the U.S. federal executive department (under the President) responsible for public security, roughly comparable to the interior or home ministries of other countries. Its stated missions involve anti-terrorism, border security, immigration and customs, cybersecurity, and disaster prevention and management..

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

We’re registered with the Department of Justice as a crime victims assistance provider.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

We provide direct services and support for scamScam A Scam is a confidence trick - a crime -  is an attempt to defraud a person or group after first gaining their trust through deception. Scams or confidence tricks exploit victims using their credulity, naïveté, compassion, vanity, irresponsibility, or greed and exploiting that. Researchers have defined confidence tricks as "a distinctive species of fraudulent conduct ... intending to further voluntary exchanges that are not mutually beneficial", as they "benefit con operators ('con men' - criminals) at the expense of their victims (the 'marks')". A scam is a crime even if no money was lost. victims, victims of cyber crime and relationship scamsRelationship Scam A Relationship Scam is a one-to-one criminal act that involves a trust relationship and uses deception & manipulation to get a victim to give to the criminal something of value, such as money! Click here to learn more: What Is A Relationship Scam? worldwide.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

With our partners in over 60 countries worldwide and through our own direct support infrastructure, I want to thank everyone for joining us today on this conversation.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

With Brett Johnson, the original Internet godfather, and I’m going to let him tell a little bit of that story.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

I know he’s probably sick.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

To death of telling that.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

But I’m gonna let him introduce himself so Brett, tell me just briefly ’cause we want to get into a a solid conversation that I’ve heard you tell in pieces so many other places tell us a little bit about who you are, what your background is.

Brett Johnson

OK.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

And before we begin, you’re a good guy.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

And have seen the light and we’re so grateful and appreciative for you.

Brett Johnson

Tim, I appreciate that I’m not sure that I really appreciate you saying I’m a good guy.

Brett Johnson

I don’t really view myself as a good guy.

Brett Johnson

I view myself as a better guy than I used to be and and why.

Brett Johnson

Well the Secret Service called me the original Internet godfather and that’s a title.

Brett Johnson

Yeah, it’s a title and and you’re right, I’ve told that.

Brett Johnson

Story a lot of times.

Brett Johnson

The way I got the title was 39 felonies because 38 felonies wasn’t enough, so 39 felonies I was placed on the United States most wanted list. They sent me to prison. I escaped from prison.

Brett Johnson

All that and the big thing as if those things weren’t big enough.

Brett Johnson

The big thing is, is I built and ran the first organized cyber crime community.

Brett Johnson

It was called Shadowcrew as a precursor to today’s darknet and darknet markets, laid the foundation for the way modern cyber crime channels operate today, the 39 felonies? Well they had to do with refining modern.

Brett Johnson

Financial cyber crime.

Brett Johnson

So if you.

Brett Johnson

Look at the way cyber crime operates so that it’s it’s if you got ATOAccount Takeover Account Takeover (ATO) are the unauthorized access of a user’s account in order to steal identity credentials, execute a fraudulent transaction or engage in varying types of abuse.’s account takeovers, credit card theft, phishing scheme, stimulus fraudFraud In law, fraud is intentional deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain (money or other assets), or to deprive a victim of a legal right. Fraud can violate civil law (e.g., a fraud victim may sue the fraud perpetrator to avoid the fraud or recover monetary compensation) or criminal law (e.g., a fraud perpetrator may be prosecuted and imprisoned by governmental authorities), or it may cause no loss of money, property, or legal right but still be an element of another civil or criminal wrong. The purpose of fraud may be monetary gain or other benefits, for example by obtaining a passport, travel document, or driver's license, or mortgage fraud, where the perpetrator may attempt to qualify for a mortgage by way of false statements. A fraud can also be a hoax, which is a distinct concept that involves deliberate deception without the intention of gain or of materially damaging or depriving a victim., synthetic fraud, you name the type of cyber crimes going on online that steals money.

Brett Johnson

I was the guy who helped develop.

Brett Johnson

A lot of it.

Brett Johnson

Of course I went to prison.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

You know, of course I did.

Brett Johnson

That that writing was on the wall since I was ten years old, but.

Brett Johnson

The interesting thing.

Brett Johnson

And it’s something that I’m still coming to terms with these days.

Brett Johnson

Is that usually that’s where the story ends.

Brett Johnson

Usually you serve your time, criminalCriminal A criminal is any person who through a decision or act engages in a crime. This can be complicated, as many people break laws unknowingly, however, in our context, it is a person who makes a decision to engage in unlawful acts or to place themselves with others who do this. A criminal always has the ability to decide not to break the law, or if they initially engage in crime to stop doing it, but instead continues. gets out a lot of criminals.

Brett Johnson

They they want to do the right thing, but they go right back into crime again for various reasons.

Brett Johnson

I’m very fortunate.

Brett Johnson

I had my sister.

Brett Johnson

I had my wife Michelle and then finally the FBI kind of gave me the opportunity to turn my life around.

Brett Johnson

I was a lifetime brittle lifetime frame and.

Brett Johnson

I was given this opportunity and I chose to take that path and I lead a very blessed life.

Brett Johnson

These days I really don’t.

Brett Johnson

I don’t think I deserve the life that I have.

Brett Johnson

But I’m very grateful for it, so that’s why I’m able to talk to you today and and I really take it seriously about protecting people against the type of person that I used to be.

Brett Johnson

And that’s that’s what I do these days is that.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

It’s ironic because about 20 years ago is when I started to get more serious.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Helping to educate victims about cyber crimes.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

While at the same time I had just completed a project to reinvent the way pharmaceutical clinical trials were conducted worldwide, and actually with a friend of mine.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Start a a business.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

To help and create reentry programs.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Or federal convicts?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

So have quite a bit of familiarity about what that process looks.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

It’s difficult, it can be.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

It’s extraordinarily difficult for individuals to go through the system and come out not only sane and and stable, but but prosperous and you’re to be absolutely commended for that.

Brett Johnson

I appreciate it before we really get into, you know the cyber crime.

Brett Johnson

Discussion just to just to say.

Brett Johnson

A word about that.

Brett Johnson

I served 7 1/2 years in prison and during that time in prison you know I went through several different prisons saw and was associated with thousands of different inmates on the compounds over.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Even escaped from 1.

Brett Johnson

There even escaped from one and what I saw was is we had this most society has this perception that felons or convicts are these.

Brett Johnson

Sociopaths that they don’t care?

Brett Johnson

That’s really not true. Most criminals are not sociopaths during all. My time in prison, 7 1/2 years, I met maybe two real true sociopaths.

Brett Johnson

Most guys that are in there, just they’ve made a bad bad life choices, usually a string of them, and they’re in prison.

Brett Johnson

They’re just wanting to do their time, get out and do the right thing so they really have hope.

Brett Johnson

When they’re released, they’re going to be able to live a legal life.

Brett Johnson

The problem is, and you know this with these reentry programs.

Brett Johnson

The problem is is you’re released from prison with the exact same tools with which you.

Brett Johnson

And unless you have help from someone, unless someone actually reaches out and and helps you if you have, you need that support groupSupport Group In a support group, members provide each other with various types of help, usually nonprofessional and nonmaterial, for a particular shared, usually burdensome, characteristic, such as romance scams. Members with the same issues can come together for sharing coping strategies, to feel more empowered and for a sense of community. The help may take the form of providing and evaluating relevant information, relating personal experiences, listening to and accepting others' experiences, providing sympathetic understanding and establishing social networks. A support group may also work to inform the public or engage in advocacy. They can be supervised or not. SCARS support groups are moderated by the SCARS Team and or volunteers..

Brett Johnson

You need people giving that that helping hand which let’s be honest, you don’t owe a criminal anything, nothing and a criminal can never repay you.

Right?

Brett Johnson

The people who helped me.

Brett Johnson

There’s no way in us on this planet that I could ever repay what they did for me, but.

Brett Johnson

It’s it’s that it’s that idea of helping somebody.

Brett Johnson

It takes that to really turn your life around, and without that I’m I’m convinced that I would be back in prison right now convinced of it, indeed.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Indeed, and and I have no answers ultimately for for what needs to be done to improve the situation.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

I do think that just on that topic for a moment, you think that society does need to understand.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

The difference between violence and non violent crimes now on that topic in a sense I actually view cyber crimes as violence.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

I don’t view them as victimless purely financial crimes.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

They are an act of violence and the reason that I say that is when we.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Care for victims which our organization does. We’ve had a little under 12,000 individuals go through our support group programs and we’ve supported over the last six years a little over 7,000,000 scam victims through our publications and educational materials and provided them with information.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

So that they can recover.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

From this process.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

What we find is that they are profoundly traumatized their child, their lives have changed forever.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Almost exactly the same as a victim of violence.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

So I I tend to view.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

And this is no.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

This version on you, but I tend to view.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Crimes that have a significant and tangible impact.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

A traumatic impact on a victim as being crimes of violence.

Brett Johnson

I can understand that I can and and you you said no, not to not to direct it at me.

Brett Johnson

But let’s be fair.

Brett Johnson

I did that stuff for years.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Yeah, right?

Brett Johnson

I hurt and harmed people and and the the damage that I did was more than just online.

Brett Johnson

Alright, it’s not just online.

Brett Johnson

You have to.

Brett Johnson

People tend to think.

Brett Johnson

When I was a criminal, I thought the same thing.

Brett Johnson

You know, I lived in the online world where I’m a really bad guy and in the quote unquote the real world.

Brett Johnson

I’m a good guy.

Brett Johnson

No, I was never a good guy and the damage that I did was never just.

Brett Johnson

Online you you do.

Brett Johnson

You know you help victims of romance.

Brett Johnson

There’s nothing worse than someone who is looking for companionship, friendship or romance.

Brett Johnson

That they think they have it.

Brett Johnson

They put their entire heart.

Brett Johnson

They’re being into it.

Brett Johnson

They’re they open up to this individual, only to find out at the end of the day that this individual was not only lying the entire time, but manipulating them into giving them their life savings, losing their house, losing every single thing they’ve got.

Brett Johnson

Yeah, that’s that’s traumatic.

Brett Johnson

And that’s more than.

Brett Johnson

Just an online crime.

Brett Johnson

I agree completely with you on that.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

You know, it’s interesting from a.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Societal point of view.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

We have a similar parallel in.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Drunk driving and societal perception of drunk driving.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

So Theorganization Madhu we look up.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

We look up too greatly, both as a model for the development of our own organization and the struggles that they went through over their 30 almost 30 year history.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Uh, as a parallel to our own in.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Still to this day.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

There is this tendency for people to look at con artists.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Likable sympathetic characters.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Just think of the movie Dirty Rotten Scoundrels with Steve Martin.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

It’s a funny movie there, con men, and they’re taking people for their life savings, but it’s a funny movie, right?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Not a funny circumstance and yet we treat it that way.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

And quite honestly, you’re a very likable, personable person.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Which helps support you so you found a way of of of capitalizing for lack of a better term on your strengths and your assets in positive productive ways and and that is to be applauded.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

But society as a whole needs to change its.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Perspective and view these crimes.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

For the violence that they are, because recently we saw an example where there was the first recorded murder by ransomwareRansomware Ransomware is a type of malware from cryptovirology that threatens to publish the victim's personal data or perpetually block access to it unless a ransom is paid. While some simple ransomware may lock the system so that it is not difficult for a knowledgeable person to reverse, more advanced malware uses a technique called cryptoviral extortion. It encrypts the victim's files, making them inaccessible, and demands a ransom payment to decrypt them. In a properly implemented cryptoviral extortion attack, recovering the files without the decryption key is an intractable problem – and difficult to trace digital currencies such as paysafecard or Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies that are used for the ransoms, making tracing and prosecuting the perpetrators difficult. Ransomware attacks are typically carried out using a Trojan virus disguised as a legitimate file that the user is tricked into downloading or opening when it arrives as an email attachment. However, one high-profile example, the WannaCry worm, traveled automatically between computers without user interaction..

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

And cyber crimes will increasingly become profoundly dangerous.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

The hack of the of the colonial pipeline could have had disastrous results as we saw not so many years ago in the Southeast, where there was a.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Well, it wasn’t.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

It wasn’t a mechanical problem, it was a command and control problem that led to the explosion of a pipeline that devastated an entire suburban neighborhood where the entire neighborhood blew up.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

So playing with infrastructure.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

More serious directed cyber crimes and infrastructure can be catastrophic, and I understand.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

This current administration’s total and complete focus on infrastructure. Sadly, this administration gave up their focus on individual victims.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

We had made great progress under the previous administration.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

I had the pleasure of meeting with the President the previous.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

President, both prior to his election and after his election to explore these issues, and.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Laws or major executive ordersExecutive Order An executive order is a directive from the President that has much of the same power as a federal law. Several landmark moments in American history came about directly from the use of executive orders issued from the United States President’s desk, including one Supreme Court decision that limited a presidential executive order issued by Harry Truman. significant focus by the Department of Homeland Security, all of which have essentially been either D accentuated defocused or just overturned and and pulled away.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

But really what I wanted to get into was not politics.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

What I?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Wanted to give.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Was to really tap into because I sat in on a uh presentation, a webinar that you participated in recently with one of our partnersaboutfraud.com. The about fraud group and one of their other partners.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

I think it was more of a commercial for the partner who offers services then really a deeper delving into the complexities of cyber crime as it actually functions and I really wanted to go into that deeply and unfortunately they weren’t doing Q&A’s to speak.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

About but

Brett Johnson

Right?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

You know there there is this continuing perception, and partly this is based upon.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

This unique phenomenon that we find ourselves in and it exists in many other topical areas but uniquely in in cyber crimes, particularly scams.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

That victims have this tendency to believe that because they were a victim, they’re now an instant expert in cyber crime.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

VictimologyVictimology Victimology is the study of victimization, including the psychological effects on victims, relationships between victims and offenders, the interactions between victims and the criminal justice system—that is, the police and courts, and corrections officials—and the connections between victims and other social groups and institutions, such as the media, businesses, and social movements. victimizationVictimization Victimization (or victimization) is the process of being victimized or becoming a victim. The field that studies the process, rates, incidence, effects, and prevalence of victimization is called victimology. and they have no clue right.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Our organization is very traumaTrauma Emotional and psychological trauma is the result of extraordinarily stressful events that shatter your sense of security, making you feel helpless in a dangerous world. Psychological trauma can leave you struggling with upsetting emotions, memories, and anxiety that won’t go away. It can also leave you feeling numb, disconnected, and unable to trust other people. Traumatic experiences often involve a threat to life or safety or other emotional shocks, but any situation that leaves you feeling overwhelmed and isolated can result in trauma, even if it doesn’t involve physical harm. It’s not the objective circumstances that determine whether an event is traumatic, but your subjective emotional experience of the event. The more frightened and helpless you feel, the more likely you are to be traumatized. Trauma requires treatment, either through counseling or therapy or through trauma-oriented support programs, such as those offered by SCARS. informed.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Our team carries certifications and extensive training in understanding and the application.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Modern trauma in the support that we provide to victims. Additionally, I myself am a 30 year veteran in educating about cyber crimes since 1991. Back in the old AOL and CompuServe days.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

So there is this perception.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

These urban legends, these falsehoods, this misinformation, that continues to be spread.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

While I’m not necessarily faulting.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Individuals for wanting to participate the problem is victims are not experts in the crimes that they suffered from.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Cyber crime has grown incredibly complex over the last few years.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

It’s not a bunch of ganian.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Citizens sitting around on a floor. 20 guys with bunk beds and some of the old photos that we saw from the early 2000s. These are very sophisticated cyber criminals that operate in corporate structures.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Uh, we know of groups around the world in in Kuala Lumpur in China and in Nigeria and elsewhere where they work in office buildings there.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Some of them are converted call centers, some of them are active call centers, where in the one hand they’re doing medical transcriptions, and in another part of the same floor.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

They’re doing romance and Macau and investment scamsInvestment Scams When a caller claims to have a promising investment opportunity that will help you get rich quick, it's likely a scam. and the like.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Uhm myself and another one of our scars directors, Debbie Montgomery Johnson.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Who you know?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Uhm, we’re fortunate enough to assist the National Geographic, and they’re reporting on this topic a while back.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

In fact, that episode is supposed to air, I believe, within the next 30 days.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

But one of the things that.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Very self evident is the sophistication of these criminals.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

They went for example, down to Jamaica to delve into the world of Lotto scams, only to find.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

A significant portion of the country is dedicated to scamming, it’s right.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

In fact.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

It may be the second largest industry in Jamaica.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

And that’s the real challenge for governments around the world is.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

It’s a multi trillion dollar a year industry.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

It brings in hard currencies to third world countries.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

And it’s difficult to turn off that spigot.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

I’m going to shut up at this point in time and I want to hear your view so.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

So maybe talk a little bit about the evolution of cyber crime in various forms and few victims really understand.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

The the world of the more pure.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Financial sides of this from financial account takeovers to to the world of credit card fraudCard Fraud Card Fraud is one of the most commonly referenced fraud definitions. It occurs when a fraudster uses a card (debit or credit) to make a purchase without the authorization of the cardholder. Card fraud can occur in-person or through digital channels. in other forms of financial fraud which do victimize individuals all the way up to in cyber crime as a as a.

Brett Johnson

Right so.

Brett Johnson

Let’s let’s go back to a moment where you were talking about how friendly and how personable I am.

Brett Johnson

I am alright what a lot of people don’t don’t know is that I am extremely introverted as well.

Brett Johnson

Alright, so I I I fight being introverted by being overly extroverted.

Brett Johnson

Now that’s important.

Brett Johnson

Because I’m not the only criminal that’s like that all right?

Brett Johnson

For crime to succeed, 3 things have to take place.

Brett Johnson

You have to gather the data, which means you’re stealing PII or buying stolen PII, bank account numbers, credit card numbers.

Brett Johnson

It’s also the tools that you’re using.

Brett Johnson

It’s those spooked phone calls, proxy addresses, anything else that you might need to go to.

Brett Johnson

The next step, which is committing the crime.

Brett Johnson

All right, so you get the data.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Can you pull your?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Mic a little closer to you.

Brett Johnson

Sure, let’s let me turn it up a little bit here.

Brett Johnson

Just a second.

Brett Johnson

Is that better?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Yeah, ’cause you fade out when you.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Lean back.

Brett Johnson

Yeah so.

Brett Johnson

You’ve gathered you gather data, the data that you’ve gathered, which is a crime.

Brett Johnson

You use that to commit whatever crime you actually want to commit, save from a criminal perspective.

Brett Johnson

That’s just the gathering the data aspect, right? You know, you’re stealing someone’s PII. That’s not a person, that’s just data. That’s the only thing that is then he’s that is correct.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

PII personally identifiable information.

Brett Johnson

Right, socials dates of birth.

Brett Johnson

Whatever fools profile efls.

Brett Johnson

So if I’m if I’m creating a fools or buying a fools so I can buy someone complete identity profile online ready made for me.

Brett Johnson

For anywhere from $30 to about $130, depending on the credit score of the victim, the gender, and the location of the victim.

Brett Johnson

OK, when I say of fools, what I mean is, for that $30 I get your name, your social, your date of birth, address, mother maiden drivers license number.

Brett Johnson

Date of birth credit report background.

Brett Johnson

Check any social media lookups that might be of interest.

Brett Johnson

I get all of that for anywhere from 30.

Brett Johnson

To 130.

Brett Johnson

Bucks right now.

Brett Johnson

That’s just the gathering the data aspect.

Brett Johnson

Then I commit the crime with that so he locks student loan fraud, new account fraud, credit card fraud, whatever.

Brett Johnson

I want to do.

Brett Johnson

With that, finally the 3rd and most important aspect is putting cash in pocket.

Brett Johnson

I need to be able to convert that crime to literal cash in pocket, so if you look at a business email compromise where I’m.

Brett Johnson

Basically defrauding a payroll system on on a corporation, getting them to send a payment instead of where they usually send it to make ends into a bank account that I control.

Brett Johnson

I can easily commit book business email compromise. I can easily do that. I can easily talk a company into CSMS 3 or $4 million into a bank account that I control.

Brett Johnson

Does that mean that I’ve profited through $4 million? No, it doesn’t. I have to be able to get that cash out of the account, get it into my pocket. That becomes extremely.

Brett Johnson

Difficult, a lot of the time that tends to be the funnel with a lot of these crimes is the laundering mechanism.

Brett Johnson

How do I convert that crime into cash now?

Brett Johnson

The reason I say that and if you remember I I was talking about being personable.

Brett Johnson

For me to defraud a.

Brett Johnson

Victim, that’s an individual or an organization for me to do that, I have to get that potential victim to trust me.

Brett Johnson

So how do I do that?

Brett Johnson

How do I get an individual to trust me?

Brett Johnson

How do I get a corporation to trust me?

Brett Johnson

Well, I would argue that it’s a combination of technology tools.

Brett Johnson

And social engineeringSocial Engineering Social engineering is the psychological manipulation of people into performing actions or divulging confidential information. It is used as a type of confidence trick for the purpose of information gathering, fraud, or system access, it differs from a traditional "con" in that it is often one of many steps in a more complex fraud scheme. It has also been defined as "any act that influences a person to take any action that may or may not be in their best interests.".

Brett Johnson

So we inherently trust the technology which is given to us.

Brett Johnson

We trust our cell phones.

Brett Johnson

We trust our laptops.

Brett Johnson

We trust the websites we go to.

Brett Johnson

We trust Amazon to ship us those items.

Brett Johnson

We trust eBay not to send us.

Brett Johnson

Some sort of counterfeit good.

Brett Johnson

It’s interesting when you think about it, but we trust Amazon even though 80% of all the reviews on Amazon are fake, we still trust them. Now I know 80% of those reviews are fake. I still read the reviews.

Brett Johnson

In order to know which sellers to go to, so it’s weird that there’s this weird relationship where we trust the technology, even though even though a part of us realizes that you know there’s some stuff wrong with that.

Brett Johnson

That’s the problem with fake newsFake news Fake news is false or misleading information presented as news. It often has the aim of damaging the reputation of a person or entity, or making money through advertising revenue. However, the term does not have a fixed definition and has been applied more broadly to include any type of false information, including unintentional and unconscious mechanisms, and also by high-profile individuals to apply to any news unfavourable to his/her personal perspectives..

Brett Johnson

We trust the news that comes across the line without ever really verifying it well, we don’t understand.

Brett Johnson

Is that criminals use a variety of tools to manipulate that technology.

Brett Johnson

They use a spoof phone number, so it’s very easy to instead of seeing the phone number that I’m calling from, I can make it look like your financial organization, the IRSIRS The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) is the revenue & tax service of the United States federal government responsible for collecting taxes and administering the Internal Revenue Code (the main body of federal statutory tax law.) It is part of the Department of the Treasury and led by the Commissioner of Internal Revenue, who is appointed to a five-year term by the President of the United States. The duties of the IRS include providing tax assistance to taxpayers; pursuing and resolving instances of erroneous or fraudulent tax filings; and overseeing various benefits programs. Visit www.IRS.gov to learn more., the SSA, some group like that.

Brett Johnson

I can use as a proxy address so that instead of it showing that.

Brett Johnson

My physical location is in Ghana, Nigeria, the UK, Florida.

Brett Johnson

I can make it look like I’m in New York, South America, wherever I want it to look like.

Brett Johnson

So I use technology.

Brett Johnson

Is there?

Brett Johnson

I use the tools to manipulate the technology that lays a base level of trust.

Brett Johnson

That’s the only thing it does.

Brett Johnson

You mentioned personable and friendly.

Brett Johnson

Here’s where this really kicks in.

Brett Johnson

At that point, once that base level is established, you see the phone number coming across of the Social Security Administration.

Brett Johnson

That’s a base level of trust.

Brett Johnson

If I were to call in, you pick up the phone.

Brett Johnson

You see that on the caller ID, that it’s the SSA and you immediately hear some guy on the other end.

Brett Johnson

Saying hey yes this is.
Speaker 3
A bladimir and I’m looking you have warrant for your arrest.
Speaker 3
On Social Security number I need you to go down and get $30,000 worth of gift cards.

Brett Johnson

Probably hopefully you don’t believe that why, even though the number says I’m calling from the Social Security Administration, why don’t you believe it?

Brett Johnson

Because I’ve not built enough trust with you yet, right?

Brett Johnson

So technology and tools lays a base level of trust and then social engineering kicks in.

Brett Johnson

We get to see how good the liar had a con man had good with.

Brett Johnson

Social engineer that criminal is in order to manipulate manipulate you into information, access data, or cash so that personable, friendly stuff that you talked about.

Brett Johnson

That’s that’s really important.

Brett Johnson

You know the media.

Brett Johnson

Portrays like you said, Steve Martin as this rotten dirty rotten scoundrel.

Brett Johnson

Real fun to watch.

Brett Johnson

I mean, it’s a it’s a great film.

Brett Johnson

It’s a great film and most of these con movies you’ve got the sting.

Brett Johnson

You’ve got all these other movies that are out there where we really like the bad guy and there’s a there’s an essence of truth there.

Brett Johnson

There’s this little nugget of truth.

Brett Johnson

That hey, we are personable.

Brett Johnson

We are extremely engaged and we are friendly but we use that.

Brett Johnson

We’re constantly manipulating constantly.

Brett Johnson

I am constantly reading the crowd all right I to this day I’m one of the best social engineers around.

Brett Johnson

And I am constantly reading people.

Brett Johnson

Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam.

Brett Johnson

I know what these people are thinking and I know what it takes to manipulate these people everything else.

Brett Johnson

To this day I do that.

Brett Johnson

Back then, the difference is I use that to harm people, because if you can gauge what what really motivates an individual, you can talk that individual into doing whatever you want them to do, and that’s the way these scams.

Brett Johnson

Tend to operate, so yeah, we’re we’re extremely engaging.

Brett Johnson

We’re very friendly and everything else you.

Brett Johnson

The interesting thing that you mentioned to me.

Brett Johnson

Is the sophistication of the criminal.

Brett Johnson

I would take exception to that.

Brett Johnson

I would say they’re very good social engineers, but they’re not very sophisticated when it comes to computer crimes, but they don’t have to be all right.

Brett Johnson

So if you think if you think about it.

Brett Johnson

The statistic right now is that 90% of every single attack uses a known exploit. So zero day attacks really don’t matter.

Brett Johnson

What matters is that we’ve been told about doing this stuff for years, either as individuals or companies they’ve been preached at.

Brett Johnson

People have been.

Brett Johnson

Preached at for years you need to do this.

Brett Johnson

You need to do this.

Brett Johnson

You need to do this.

Brett Johnson

But they’ve not, and so that 90% today, 90% of every single attack uses a known exploit. For example, I talk to people all the time when I give a presentation to consumers.

Brett Johnson

The first thing out of the gate freezeFreeze Trauma Freeze Response: While fight-or-flight is the better-known way humans respond to certain stressful stimuli, the additional less known third response "FREEZE", was not as widely studied until this last decade. Freezing as a response to a threat might seem effective, a sort of “playing dead” in the face of danger; however, in humans freezing manifests as an inability to communicate, react, make decisions, or take any action of self-preservation or defense. your credit, freeze the credit, it stops all new account fraud. Credit freezes have been free since 2018. Today the percent of the population.

Brett Johnson

Has a credit freeze in place 12%.

Brett Johnson

It’s been free for three years. Only 12% of the population. Now it stops all new account fraud, but we’ve still only got 12% of everybody on the in the United States that have a credit freeze in place. That’s a problem. Same thing with passwords, I know.

Brett Johnson

I know that 80% of every single person uses the same password and login across multiple websites. I know that.

Brett Johnson

So if I know this kind of stuff, does.

Brett Johnson

That mean I’m a.

Brett Johnson

Sophisticated criminal, no.

Brett Johnson

That just simply means you’re not doing what you need to do the platform, the plant, the cybercrimeCybercrime Cybercrime is a crime related to technology, computers, and the Internet. Typical cybercrime are performed by a computer against a computer, or by a hacker using software to attack computers or networks. platform is where the sophistication is.

Brett Johnson

So if you look at unemployment fraud, there were 16 year olds on Telegram stealing $60,000 a week.

Brett Johnson

Committing unemployment

Brett Johnson

Fraud now that 16 year old is not a computer computer genius, he’s not.

Brett Johnson

He’s not.

Brett Johnson

That’s plug and play at that point.

Brett Johnson

Any 16 year old could have done that if they were willing to engage in that type of crime.

Brett Johnson

Alright, the sophistication comes in a couple of different points.

Brett Johnson

First of all, the states had no security in place whatsoever.

Brett Johnson

They actually.

Brett Johnson

The Carers Act had actually taken away the security that was in place so there was no security in place with the states.

Brett Johnson

With PPP fraud.

Brett Johnson

Anything else like that at the same time the data was readily available.

Brett Johnson

So you can go to Robo, check commits a criminal website, it lists of Social Security numbers and dates of birth of 170 million Americans pre pandemic.

Brett Johnson

Those things sold for $2.90 apiece because of the pandemic. Those things sell today for $6.70 apiece, so that that’s that’s the problem with this.

Brett Johnson

Thing is, is the platform?

Brett Johnson

Is there a criminal?

Brett Johnson

Doesn’t have to know how to do anything.

Brett Johnson

He can simply get it done for.

Brett Johnson

For example, there’s a site called. Second I solution if you’re needing a fake driver’s license. So today if you’re setting up a bank account if you’re taking over an account, if you’re trying to verify an account, oftentimes they’ll want you to send.

Brett Johnson

A scan of.

Brett Johnson

Your drivers license so this site does that for you. For $30, they’ll they’ll make a scan of your drivers license. I’ll put some other guys.

Brett Johnson

Picture on it for you if they want you to take a selfie with it. If you’re trying to verify through a bank and the bank wants a selfie with the ID for $50, that this guy will take the selfie ID with.

Brett Johnson

You know it goes a little bit further than that if you’re trying to bypass one specific type of system, what second Eyes solution does you go to a screen and it says.

Brett Johnson

What are you trying to verify?

Brett Johnson

You’re trying to verify Coinbase or PayPal, or what system are you trying to get past?

Brett Johnson

You click the box and they design the product.

Brett Johnson

To get past.

Brett Johnson

That system, so now you’ve got a criminal that.

Brett Johnson

Doesn’t have to know how to create a fake ID.

Brett Johnson

Doesn’t have to know any type of security that’s on the system or how to bypass the system.

Brett Johnson

It’s done for them all the time, so the the criminals themselves are not really sophisticated. You do have some of those attackers out there like that, but 99%.

Brett Johnson

Now they’re just really good social engineers.

Brett Johnson

That’s what they are.

Brett Johnson

That’s the sophistication is in the platform, not the individual.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

And I.

Brett Johnson

So I don’t know if that answered the question but partly.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

I would argue that maybe the percentage is even less because the reality is when we’re talking about.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

The West Africans for example.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Their liars to be sure, but they’re not particularly good at it, but they depend upon a less informed, more vulnerable audience.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

You know, we we talked about or you talked about.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Stranger Trust it’s it’s a bona fide.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Bias cognitive bias that exists within all humans.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

We evolved to trust our fellow tribal members and when we consider ourselves part of a tribe from an anthropological point of view, we automatically offer our trust unless we have visual.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Auditory other sense clues that indicate the danger is present, then we will withdraw it, but you can walk up to any person on.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

The street and.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Seven out of 10 times you can ask them for the password and they.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Will tell you.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

We’ve demonstrated so can you talk a little bit about the mechanics of the outsourcing side?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

In other words, cyber crime as a service and how that’s functioning today.

Brett Johnson

Sure, so again, let’s go back to those three necessities of cyber crime, gathering data, committing crime, cashing out now a single criminal cannot do all three things.

Brett Johnson

He can do one thing.

Brett Johnson

Sometimes he could do.

Brett Johnson

Two, all three not going to happen, simply not going to happen.

Brett Johnson

And there’s two reasons for that.

Brett Johnson

The first reason is a skill gap.

Brett Johnson

That specific criminal simply can’t do one of those legs.

Brett Johnson

One of those three things alright, so he can’t gather data.

Brett Johnson

Maybe he doesn’t know how to do a phishing scheme.

Brett Johnson

Maybe he can’t launch a man in the middle attack or whatever that is that’s gathering that.

Brett Johnson

Type of data or that’s building that specific tool.

Brett Johnson

He doesn’t know how to manually spoof phone numbers or how to take over a router and set up a proxy address so he has to rely on somebody else to do that.

Brett Johnson

That service that cyber crime service.

Brett Johnson

You just mention.

Brett Johnson

That’s that leg there, but it’s also in the Commission of the crimes.

Brett Johnson

So nowadays retailers and merchants.

Brett Johnson

Are being hit ad nauseam with this thing called refund fraud right?

Brett Johnson

And basically the way it works is you order a Mac Book Pro or a laptop or what have you and you get it in and a crime bin happens where you get to keep the Mac.

Brett Johnson

Book and you get your money back.

Brett Johnson

Well, if you don’t know how to do that specific crime, guess what?

Brett Johnson

You can pay some guy 7 to 15% of whatever the order total is to do it for you.

Brett Johnson

So that’s that other leg, that’s that platform that’s there.

Brett Johnson

That platform of crime facilitates all this.

Brett Johnson

Cashing out.
Speaker 3
Some big one.

Brett Johnson

A big one because you’ve got to be able to put cash in pocket at the end of the day.

Brett Johnson

If you’re not profiting from the crime, why commit it?

Brett Johnson

A lot of people simply don’t know how to set up bank accounts.

Brett Johnson

They don’t know how to cash out a prepaid card properly or where to get prepaid cards or how to do gift card fraud or anything else like.

Brett Johnson

Yeah, so the first aspect of that is that skill gap.

Brett Johnson

We see that there’s there’s a gap where someone can’t do something, so they have to rely on some somebody else to do that.

Brett Johnson

Some service to do that?

Brett Johnson

That’s this platform that we’re talking about.

Brett Johnson

When I started with Shadowcrew, that platform was not in existence.

Brett Johnson

We built.

Brett Johnson

That from the ground up and the way you build that it’s this thing called trust, right?

Brett Johnson

You know we azuis good guys.

Brett Johnson

We trust our technology.

Brett Johnson

We trust the websites we trust where we’re going.

Brett Johnson

That’s why we’re online.

Brett Johnson

If we didn’t have that trust, believe you me we would not be online.

Brett Johnson

We trust where we’re going.

Brett Johnson

Criminals are the exact same way criminals have to trust their criminal associates.

Brett Johnson

If I’m buying product or services from another group, I have to be able to trust that.

Brett Johnson

The product and service works that I’m not buying it from a law enforcement agent that everything is going to work OK so I have to be able to trust that shadowcrew the group that I started.

Brett Johnson

Solved them, they gave a trust mechanism for criminals to use.

Brett Johnson

You have now and it’s it wasn’t like it was rocket science back then.

Brett Johnson

What we did is we launched a forum all right.

Brett Johnson

So now you had a large communication channel where people from different time zones could reference conversations, days, weeks, months old.

Brett Johnson

They could learn from them, take part in it.

Brett Johnson

They can look at someone screen name.

Brett Johnson

Determine the skill level of that person just by looking at the screen name.

Brett Johnson

We knew we had vouching systems in place, and when you voucher someone, what that basically means is I accept responsibility for who I say is good here, and I said this.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Sort of a dark webDark Web This is a sub-level of the internet that normal search engines and everyday browsers cannot access. It’s an encrypted network that contains websites – both legal and illegal – that remain hidden from plain sight. version of social media.

Brett Johnson

That’s exactly what that is.

Brett Johnson

That’s exactly what that is, it’s it’s.

Brett Johnson

A take on.

Brett Johnson

The old mafia.

Brett Johnson

I vouch for this guy.

Brett Johnson

Well, when you vouch for somebody, if he rips somebody up, I’m not going to go to him.

Brett Johnson

I’m going to go to you because you said he was good.

Brett Johnson

You’re responsible for his.

Brett Johnson

Actions and you take that seriously.

Brett Johnson

In a criminal world.

Brett Johnson

So we had those vouching systems we had review systems in place to the degree that it became almost a real time data construct, so that if you were buying credit card information from one seller, the reviews were coming in.

Brett Johnson

Everyone knew how good that seller was at that specific time, if the seller.

Brett Johnson

Got a bad batch of credit cards in bad reviews almost instantaneously started popping up so everyone knew immediately.

Brett Johnson

Hey, that batch is bad.

Brett Johnson

Let’s go to this other seller right now.

Brett Johnson

That’s good all right.

Brett Johnson

So you have review systems you had escrow systems in place so that if the new seller comes up.

Brett Johnson

No one trusts that person yet.

Brett Johnson

Well, guess what you trust the website that you’re on.

Brett Johnson

This dark web marketplace.

Brett Johnson

We will hold your money for you until you get your product or service.

Brett Johnson

Make sure it works and then at that point that money is released to the criminal that sold it to you.

Brett Johnson

All that was put together so that criminals could trust each other alright.

Brett Johnson

So but again, it goes past that.

Brett Johnson

It’s this idea that a criminal has to establish trust with that potential victim.

Brett Johnson

So I’ve already talked about how it’s done with individuals.

Brett Johnson

How do you do that with an organization?

Brett Johnson

Well, you can do it with stolen crude.

Brett Johnson

You can do it with spoofed calls spoofed a browser fingerprints any number of things in order to gain entry into the system and get that system to trust you.

Brett Johnson

That’s it all.

Brett Johnson

Boils down to trust at the end.

Brett Johnson

At the end of the day, what you?

Brett Johnson

See more often than not.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

If I could interrupt you for a second, a good example of that is what happened this last week with the FBI.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Someone breached their email, servers, took control of their email servers, created new email accounts ad nauseam, then sold those email addresses on the dark web to other criminals who then exploited them.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

For malwareMalware Short for "malicious software," this term means computer viruses and other types of programs that cybercriminals use to disrupt or access your computer, typically with the aim of gathering sensitive files and accounts., ransomware, phishing scams.

Brett Johnson

Right?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Unfortunately, the FBI isn’t fully admitting how long this went on.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

There are some theories that it may actually have gone on for months.

Brett Johnson

And it may have, I mean I.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

It happened only for one day.

Brett Johnson

Right and it no one knows the time yet. We’ve not. We’ve not gotten that full information yet. The the issue with that. If you have an fbi.gov address.

Brett Johnson

Yes, what can you do at that point?

Brett Johnson

Well, you can do whatever you want to do at that point.

Brett Johnson

You can get a company to give you whatever type of information that you’re looking for.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Right?

Brett Johnson

You can gain entry to a company website.

Brett Johnson

Anything else like that, but it’s extremely.

Brett Johnson

That’s that credential.

Brett Johnson

That’s that.

Brett Johnson

How much trust does that bring with it?

Brett Johnson

It brings a lot of trust with it.

Brett Johnson

A lot of trust.

Brett Johnson

So that’s that’s the issue that we’re facing these days, and that’s not if you look at Robin Hood.

Brett Johnson

If you look at the FBI stuff like that, probably those attacks used known exploits.

Brett Johnson

It was, it was somebody that it was wide open.

Brett Johnson

We just scanned the system, maybe in the open SMB.

Brett Johnson

Is there what have you?

Brett Johnson

And we gained entry like that?

Brett Johnson

If you look at ransomware you you mentioned ransomware earlier.

Brett Johnson

Pre pandemic ransomware deployment was usually some sort of social engineering technique.

Brett Johnson

You’d send out an email.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Right?

Brett Johnson

Hope someone clicks on the PDF.

Brett Johnson

Whatever you drop a thumb drive in a parking lot, which someone at that point would always pick it up and plug it in.

Brett Johnson

So some sort of social engineering technique.

Brett Johnson

Post pandemic, it changes now 51% of all ransomware deployments is through brute forceBrute-force attack Brute-force attack: A hacking method to find passwords or encryption keys by trying every possible combination of characters until the correct one is found. in an open SMB, or it’s through pro SMB ports is what that is? Alright, that’s 51%. Why is that? Well, we’ve got all these people work in remote now.

Brett Johnson

That’s the issue and I know as a criminal that the statistic is 41% of every single router has the default password. Ah.

Brett Johnson

Ah, so if I know that, what’s the chances that I can brute force that password to an SMB port?

Brett Johnson

Probably pretty good, probably.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Not just business routers, but home routers as well.
Speaker 3
Probably could easily.

Brett Johnson

Home routers as well, and that’s just for routers.

Brett Johnson

That doesn’t even mention IoT devices.

Brett Johnson

How easy is it for me to get the default password?

Brett Johnson

It’s a Google search.

Brett Johnson

That’s all it is, so that’s that’s these issues.

Brett Johnson

I mean, we’re told to do these things.

Brett Johnson

We don’t do it because we don’t view it as serious enough, but we’ll we’ll do it later.

Right?

Brett Johnson

And that becomes the issue all of a sudden.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Well, you know it’s it’s, it’s I.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

I equate it to automobiles in the early days of automobiles you had to be a very specialized individual to even contemplate owning car and you have to be mechanically inclined ’cause they broke down all the time.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

But after the war.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Cars became easy, they became reliable and the result is that you now had to have driver’s licenses because.

Brett Johnson

Right?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Unskilled individuals were killing people with rapid.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Frequency, but another phenomenon happened is we became a culture of overconfidence when it comes and you see this everyday with parents treatment of their children, they’re either completely freaked out, justifiably, or.

Brett Johnson

Oh yeah.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

They put an adolescent behind the most deadly weapon that the average person will own.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

With severe consequences, but just look at our attitude towards cars, the average person will exceed the recommended brake life by double.

Brett Johnson

Right?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

They won’t check their engines, their fluids, whatever.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

It’s estimated that fully half of the vehicles on the road are technically unsafe.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

But their owners operate in this delusional state.

Brett Johnson

Right?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

I don’t mean mental illnessMental Illness Mental illness, also called mental health disorders, refers to a wide range of mental health conditions — disorders that affect your mood, thinking, and behavior. Examples of mental illness include depression, anxiety disorders, schizophrenia, eating disorders, and addictive behaviors., but just a cognitive distortion confirmation biasConfirmation bias This cognitive bias is favoring information that conforms to your existing beliefs and discounting evidence that does not conform..

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

They believe what they want to believe that they’re safe and fine, and all of this.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Is great yet.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

45,000 people die a year because of automobile accidents.

Brett Johnson

And and you know.

Brett Johnson

We’re talking about what people should be doing right I I want to make sure that that the people who are listening out there know that the only person that’s responsible for crime is the criminal.

Brett Johnson

Yes, and and I I’m adamant about this.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

No, get the blamingBlaming Blame or Blaming is the act of censuring, holding responsible, making negative statements about an individual or group that their action or actions are socially or morally irresponsible, the opposite of praise. When someone is morally responsible for doing something wrong, their action is blameworthy. By contrast, when someone is morally responsible for doing something right, we may say that his or her action is praiseworthy. Blame imparts responsibility for an action or act, as in that they made a choice to perform that act or action. here.

Brett Johnson

I I’m adamant about that.

Brett Johnson

I mean I don’t care if it’s online, I don’t care.

Brett Johnson

If it’s in the physical world.

Brett Johnson

If someone leaves their front door open wide open in the neighborhood and they go to the store for three or four hours and they come back and their house is burglarized, the only person responsible for that is the criminal.

Brett Johnson

It’s an active choice on a criminal part to victimize you.

Brett Johnson

Alright, so that being said.

Brett Johnson

Criminals tend to hit the lowest hanging fruit.

Brett Johnson

If you are that individual that has not done what you need to do.

Brett Johnson

You are one of those lowest pieces of lowest hanging fruit that’s out there, and it’s it’s not really complicated to protect yourself.

Brett Johnson

It’s really not if you think about the way a scam works.

Brett Johnson

Scams work because a criminal is trying to get you to think emotionally, to react emotionally to whatever is going on in that situation.

Brett Johnson

That’s one of these things with.

Brett Johnson

With why romance scams are so insidious and they truly are you mentioned that thing you mentioned it a minute ago?

Brett Johnson

Part of a tribe.

Brett Johnson

So a scammerScammer A Scammer or Fraudster is someone that engages in deception to obtain money or achieve another objective. They are criminals that attempt to deceive a victim into sending more or performing some other activity that benefits the scammer. starts on a romance site.

Brett Johnson

He’s got that potential victim over here.

Brett Johnson

He’s not part of that tribe at that point in time, but because they communicate for such a length of time.

Brett Johnson

It’s all about making sure that.

Brett Johnson

That victim is part of the tribe of the scammer, and when that happens, and when that when it finally comes to fruition and the victim realizes that they’ve been victimized.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Right?

Brett Johnson

At that point, that’s why it causes so much harm, because your part that that scammer is now part of your tribe, part of your family, you’ve shared every single thing with that person that’s ripping you off.

Brett Johnson

That really doesn’t care about you.

Brett Johnson

You think that that person has cared about you, for I don’t know.

Brett Johnson

Potentially years.

Brett Johnson

Sometimes I I talked to a guy.

Brett Johnson

His mom, Social Security.

Brett Johnson

That’s the only money she had coming in.

Brett Johnson

I did a podcast about it.

Brett Johnson

The only money she had coming in was her Social Security money.

Brett Johnson

She gives all her money to this scammer to this day she argues that he wasn’t a scammer.

Brett Johnson

She loses her house to this scammer.

Brett Johnson

Loses her house to this guy, the sun at one point takes over the the the the the money for the mom because she’s spending there sending every penny she’s got to this guy the house has before she loses the house, it has to have some repairs.

Brett Johnson

$30,000 worth of repairs. The poor son. He’s he’s foolish enough to give the money to the mom. He trusts that he trusts the mom enough.

Brett Johnson

Thinking that she’ll pay the contractors no, that 30 K went right over to the.

Brett Johnson

Scammer, it’s it’s this this this idea.

Brett Johnson

That you know.

Brett Johnson

We as human beings.

Brett Johnson

We want companionship.

Brett Johnson

We don’t want to die alone.

Brett Johnson

We want to make sure we’ve got friends we need that human interaction and when that’s taken advantage of man that causes some pain that causes a lot of trauma.

Brett Johnson

So I agree with you what you said at the beginning of our talk of, you know it’s a violent crime.

Brett Johnson

It is a violent crime.

Brett Johnson

Especially that especially that you’re putting everything you’ve got.

Brett Johnson

You’re trusting this person with with your life.

Brett Johnson

And they take advantage of that.

Brett Johnson

There’s nothing worse than that.

Brett Johnson

I mean there?

Brett Johnson

OK yeah, there’s a lot of things worse than that, but that’s that’s really up there as far as causing pain and trauma and everything else it truly is.

Brett Johnson

And and you know, I talk, yeah, you’ve talked.

Brett Johnson

To a lot.

Brett Johnson

Of a lot of victims I have to.

Brett Johnson

And one of the interesting things that I’ve that I talk about is is a lot of victims.

Brett Johnson

You know they.

Brett Johnson

They think while the scams going on, it could be a scam.

Brett Johnson

I’m sure the only thing this person is wanting his money.

Brett Johnson

And yet they.

Brett Johnson

Still send the money out.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Well, there there’s two things that are really interesting about that.

Brett Johnson

So why is that?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

One is after the scam is when victims always say yes.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

I knew it was a scam, but I.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Did it anyway, except that’s not really true.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

There’s this bias called hindsight biasHindsight Bias The hindsight bias is often referred to as the "I-knew-it-all-along phenomenon." It involves the tendency people have to assume that they knew the outcome of an event after the outcome has already been determined., which is a.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Which is very interesting.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

The human mind tries to make order out of chaos.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

We try to make sense of the world that we live in and after the fact.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

When something terrible happens to us, we come to the realization that we are vulnerable, that we are powerless and unfortunately, our own psychology.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Pulls away from that rather than embracing it, because if you’re powerless and vulnerable, the simple solution is you learn not to be.

Is that right?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

It actually isn’t complicated.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

But what the mind does is This is why victims are such unreliable witnesses.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Is the mind fills in gaps, it invents memories.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

It looks back at things that were red flags that you didn’t know at the time and it says I must have known that.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

How could I be that stupid right when in reality they didn’t at that time and this also creates?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

A really interesting logical conflict that is the basis of a lot of shameShame Shame is an unpleasant self-conscious emotion typically associated with a negative evaluation of the self; withdrawal motivations; and feelings of distress, exposure, mistrust, powerlessness, and worthlessness. and guilt because consider this.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

If a victim truly didn’t know and they were vulnerable and powerless, there is no blameBlame Blame or Blaming is the act of censuring, holding responsible, making negative statements about an individual or group that their action or actions are socially or morally irresponsible, the opposite of praise. When someone is morally responsible for doing something wrong, their action is blameworthy. By contrast, when someone is morally responsible for doing something right, we may say that his or her action is praiseworthy. Blame imparts responsibility for an action or act, as in that they made a choice to perform that act or action..

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

It wasn’t their fault, right?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Made a mistake to talk to a stranger.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

That’s it.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Yet on the other hand, afterwards, that’s a very unacceptable proposition for someone psychologically, so the result is they believe I saw the red flags.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

I just didn’t act on them now.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

The problem then is if you were aware and didn’t act, you are in fact guilty.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Of not acting.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

This then happens inside the brain and it is a basis for a lot of shame, I knew, but I didn’t do anything about it.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Therefore I am guilty.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

I let this happen.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

So on the one hand, it helps us maintain and build our self confidence after an extraordinary moment of powerlessness and vulnerability.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

On the other hand, long term, it creates a conflict in our mind.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

That we can’t reconcile.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

How could I allow this to happen?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

These are the exact words that victims say.

Brett Johnson

You know what’s you’re saying this and and I’m I’m realizing too, but it also when the victim blames themselves in that situation like that.

Brett Johnson

It also gives them control of that situation.

Brett Johnson

I’m at fault I allowed this to happen.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

But it also prevents them.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

From forgiving themselves and moving forward into recovery because they carry that shame and guilt with them because they believe.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

In not, perhaps consciously but subconsciously, the subtext of their of their descriptions about themselves define themselves as being culpable, not just responsible but culpable, and part of our recovery process is helping victims.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

The part of what you remember after the fact are invented memories.

Brett Johnson

Right?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

The traumatic memories of what really happened is actually suppressed.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

By the trauma that you experience as well, so the complexity of the psychology of a victim.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Is significantly more complicated.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Then most people will allow themselves to believe particularly.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

A full

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

3rd of victims cannot reconcile the fact that they were emotionally harmed by a second.

Right?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

But they’re profoundly angry.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

A typical response of fight response from trauma.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

The psychological underpinnings from a victimology point of view.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Create a more complex situation than most people are aware of.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

This is why we characterize this as violence because it’s very similar to someone who has been physically assaulted.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Domestic abuse, sexual assault, etc.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

The same kinds of trauma.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Evidence themselves in the same kind of responses.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

And there are sadly, victims who have been.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Years since their scam ended.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

But are still in a state of freeze in a state of collapse in effect.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Who cannot move forward?

Brett Johnson

Right?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

This isn’t denialDenial Denial is a refusal or unwillingness to accept something or to accept reality. Refusal to admit the truth or reality of something, refusal to acknowledge something unpleasant; And as a term of Psychology: denial is a defense mechanism in which confrontation with a personal problem or with reality is avoided by denying the existence of the problem or reality..

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

This is simply a trauma response.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

One of the things I wanted to.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Ask you about is.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

There’s been a.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

A sea change in the world of relationship scams in the last year and a half because of the pandemic.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

And it is with the.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

The explosion.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Of what’s called big excuse me pig butcheringPig Butchering This is a scam type that originated in China involving the scammer developing a relationship with the victim - sometimes romantic sometimes not - and leading the victim to invest in a fake company or asset. These typically target smart younger women. scams a horrific description.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Of a fairly simple technique.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

One of the challenges of the traditional relationship scammer, or in fact most types of interactive fraud is the necessity to spin a story that necessitates some form of a money transaction.

Brett Johnson

Right?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

And when we’re talking about romance and regular relationship scams, it’s a complicated story.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

My dog ate my papers and I’m now arrested in the jail in Mozambique, right?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

I’m an oil worker and I lost my papers so I can’t get off the rig.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Whatever nonsense story it.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Happens to be.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

But that’s complicated, and it requires a more complex level of trust by the victim.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Now, this new Chinese model that is spreading the world over the pig, butcher or pig slaughter or whatever they want to call it.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Is you engage in a romance?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

There’s no subterfuge in the romance part of it.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Per Southeast, there’s no emergency story.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

There’s no necessity.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

But then they introduce investment opportunity.

Brett Johnson

OK.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

And then the scammer.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Presents the investment opportunity, usually in Bitcoin, or might be even a fake IPO and they have a fully realized fake website or fake app and it’s technologically well developed.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Person invest their money.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Many times they’re clever enough that they get the person to invest a small amount of money.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

But it shows in their account on the app or the website and then it shows.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Gains that they realized their money is doubled or tripled, or whatever.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

And OK now is the time to come in hot and heavy and invest a big amount.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

And of course, when they do that, the scammer fades away.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

The website goes down, the app stops working, they can’t communicate with anybody.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Uhm, in your involvement with the FBI and others.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

To what extent have have you been aware of this new transformation of China being an exporter of cyber crime?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

To the extent that it.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Is now today.

I mean.

Brett Johnson

China has been doing China has been doing cyber crime for for years.

Brett Johnson

You know that right.

Brett Johnson

It’s historically been IPS and little intellectual property that’s been stolen.

Brett Johnson

It’s not surprising that since you had China involved in online crime, it’s not surprising.

Brett Johnson

That as as.

Brett Johnson

It becomes more prolific.

Brett Johnson

People start to understand the way online environments operate that you would have.

Brett Johnson

These types of scams come to fruition, either that that investment scamInvestment Scam When a caller claims to have a promising investment opportunity that will help you get rich quick, it's likely a scam. if you think about it.

Brett Johnson

It it then goes back to trust again, so people are used to the romance scams where you introduce the idea.

Brett Johnson

Like you said, not being able to get off the oil rig or my son needs an operation or what they’re used to those stories we’re used to that.

Brett Johnson

The interesting thing these days is that, as you know, crypto currency is going through the roof stark stock markets going through the roof, so people have that idea of these gains.

Brett Johnson

Of these, these massive gains when you invest and I don’t say, invest.

Brett Johnson

I say when you play the lottery of cyber of cryptocurrency.

Brett Johnson

They have they have.

Brett Johnson

This thing where they understand that.

Brett Johnson

It’s not difficult to feed into that, you know you you you have that romance.

Brett Johnson

You don’t mention anything about a scam, nothing else you know and you show what you show the car that you’re driving or you know pictures of your house or whatever.

Brett Johnson

And this is where I live.

Brett Johnson

And why do you make your money?

Brett Johnson

Why do crypto?

Brett Johnson

You just leave it out there?

Brett Johnson

You know I do crypto and I’m why invest in a lot of stuff.

Brett Johnson

And a few months later you come up and say, well, you know, hey, you see the money I’m making.

Brett Johnson

If you’re wanting me to get into this, there’s a great opportunity coming up.

Brett Johnson

Don’t really care if you do it or not.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Difficult typical long conLong con A "long con" or "big con" (also: long game) is a scam type that unfolds over several days or weeks; it may involve a team of swindlers, and even props, sets, extras, costumes, or scripted lines. It aims to rob the victim of huge sums of money or valuables, often by getting them to empty out banking accounts and borrow from family members. A romance scam is a Long Con..

That’s right.

Brett Johnson

Long con, because the longer you go and it’s it’s what criminals understand these days, it’s it’s almost a a mass perception that’s hit.

Brett Johnson

It started to hit a little bit before the pandemic, but now it’s really taken.

Brett Johnson

Hold this idea of patience.

Brett Johnson

The longer you’re in a system, or the longer you’re talking to that potential victim, the more you establish trust.

Brett Johnson

All right, the more legitimate you appear until you get to the point where you offer this opportunity, you know I don’t really care if you take it or not.

Brett Johnson

I’m I’m going to get into it because I know what the gains are and you see how much money I’ve been making.

Brett Johnson

You know, if you want to just hey put a couple 100 bucks into it, see what it makes you so they send you the 200 the gains even if you have to pay that. The weird thing is, is.

Brett Johnson

$200 turns into $1000 OK if I need to. If you really want that $1000, well, I’m not running.

Brett Johnson

I’m not just scamming you, I’ve got a whole slew of people that I’m running this samkon on. So yeah, I’ll give you that $1000 ’cause I know I’m going to get that back because all of a sudden hey, you get your gains. I’ve got this opportunity.

Brett Johnson

You don’t wanna miss out on this.

Brett Johnson

How much money can you give us?

Brett Johnson

How much money can you put in our thousands?

Brett Johnson

All you’ve got that’s really all you’ve got.

Brett Johnson

We’re talking about you being able to retire.

Brett Johnson

On this one opportunity right here, you know that’s that old.

Brett Johnson

That’s that old boiler room stuff with the phone calls smile and I’ll spray and pray whatever you want to call it.

Brett Johnson

It’s just you’re you’re.

Brett Johnson

You’re putting those two aspects together you’re building trust with that romance victim through that long con your everything looks legitimate.

Brett Johnson

I love you, I love you I love you blah blah blah blah blah.

Brett Johnson

So you gain the trust and then you offer the opportunity.

Brett Johnson

Do people take it?

Brett Johnson

Surely take it.

Brett Johnson

Sure they do, but it’s still it.

Brett Johnson

It causes that same amount of harm that you thought.

Brett Johnson

I mean you you.

Brett Johnson

They were making all kinds of money.

Brett Johnson

You know it’s.

Brett Johnson

I read every day or see on the Internet every day about how much bitcoins increasing everything else and this new coin came out.

Brett Johnson

Yeah, and it’s not like I mean.

Brett Johnson

So if you’re talking about crypto, there’s a company today. There’s several companies that you can pay $200 and they will create a coin for you.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Right?

Brett Johnson

That’s the thing.

Brett Johnson

So you can offer you can say, hey, here, here’s your coin.

Brett Johnson

Doesn’t mean anything doesn’t mean anything at all.

Brett Johnson

Yeah, you’ve got the point that.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

It’s like the stock market in the 1920s.

Brett Johnson

That’s it, that’s it.

Brett Johnson

And I think we’re going to see a big crash.

Brett Johnson

I mean, we have two people can’t continue to make those kinds of gains without a crash coming, you know, and we see you, especially in the crypto world, right?

Brett Johnson

Now you see.

Brett Johnson

Scam upon scam upon scam because it’s not regulated or anything else.

Brett Johnson

Anyone can create a coin, they can.

Brett Johnson

Hype it up big enough and then get enough investors and then do what’s called a rug pool.

Brett Johnson

They just pull all the liquidity out and it’s done at that point and that’s what a lot of these scams consist of is exactly that.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Right before we before we end the call and I don’t want to, you know, I I would love to continue talking to you for for hours, but I don’t want to abuse the opportunity that we have today and and want to try and hold it to.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

An hour, sure.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

You know one of the things that we saw during the pandemic was an explosion of scams and cyber crime across the board.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Some estimates.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Cyber security industry estimates are that there were thirty million scam victims in the United States in 2020 alone, up 2000% from the previous year.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

We understand the dynamics of that.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

What do you hear from your connections in industry and the world of law enforcement etc.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

On what the?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Real magnitudes of money.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Being generated by cyber crime art today. McAfee said couple of years back that we could expect to see $6 trillion generated by cyber crime by the end of 2021. But that was said in 2018.

Brett Johnson

Right so.

Brett Johnson

Think about it like this, alright?

Brett Johnson

The pandemic hits the government, basically gives away money.

Brett Johnson

There was no security in place, so you really had that.

Brett Johnson

That influx to give you an idea how these numbers grow when when the feds shut down shadowcrew, we ended with four thousand members.

Brett Johnson

Fast forward to 2017 Alfa base. Shut down by law enforcement 240,000 members.

Brett Johnson

Fast forward two more years to 2019. Black markets shut down 1.15 million members. That’s pre pandemic.

Brett Johnson

The pandemic hits and you had 16 year olds stealing $60,000 a week and they were not unique in that you had states.

Brett Johnson

Arizona Arizona admits to $4 billion the numbers more like $30 billion. That was lost to unemployment fraud. California one state, California.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

For one thing.

Brett Johnson

Admits to $21 billion. They admit to that the numbers much higher, probably four times that amount. So you had these numbers being stolen by people who.

Brett Johnson

They didn’t have to know how to commit a crime. They could buy a tutorial for $10 that walked them through the questions and what they needed to do to get that money. So did those numbers increase or decrease? Oh, they exploded. They exploded. Not only did they explode.

Brett Johnson

But they told those new fraudsters and the old fraudsters hey.

Brett Johnson

There’s a lot of profit to be made a lot.

Brett Johnson

Yeah, they may shut down the stimulus, but guess what?

Brett Johnson

We need to start looking at these areas.

Brett Johnson

What we’ve not looked at before?

Brett Johnson

Where can we profit?

Brett Johnson

That’s so that’s why you’ve got ransomware attacks on Colonial pipeline.

Brett Johnson

That’s why you’ve got the casea the supply chain attacks that are happening.

Brett Johnson

Everything else the verticals that were never really hit before.

Brett Johnson

Criminals are looking at that, and they’re profiting by it.

Brett Johnson

The biggest lie in the world is that crime doesn’t pay.

Brett Johnson

Yes, it pays.

Brett Johnson

If it didn’t, you wouldn’t have all these criminals out there, so it’s it’s important to protect yourself from that and to realize that, hey.

Brett Johnson

Yeah, I I like I like being online too.

Brett Johnson

I like going out to the store and everything else, but there are predators in our lives and we have to be vigilant.

Brett Johnson

We have to be conscious.

Brett Johnson

We have to have that situational awarenessSituational Awareness Situational awareness can be defined simply as “knowing what is going on around us”, or – more technically – as “the perception of the elements in the environment within a volume of time and space, the comprehension of their meaning and the projection of their status in the near future” In other words, being aware of opportunities & dangers in any given context! both online and in the real world.

Brett Johnson

If we don’t, we’re going to be victimized.

Brett Johnson

So it’s just important to realize that.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

How do we get government to make the necessary changes?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Or is it even possible at?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

This point in time.

Brett Johnson

It’s not going to happen.

Brett Johnson

It’s not going to.

Brett Johnson

Happen, we’ve got so.

Brett Johnson

Name me a president who has assigned proper attribution to the crimes we’ve got?

Brett Johnson

We’ve got an administration right now that the guys Intel communities have said, hey, Russia sanctions these attacks.

Brett Johnson

And what’s been the?

Brett Johnson

Response, I don’t believe that.

Brett Johnson

I don’t believe that at.

Brett Johnson

All if you can’t even do that, how are you going to come in and have proper regulation?

Brett Johnson

You’re not, you’re not.

Brett Johnson

And then we’re in a society and Lord knows, I love capitalism.

Brett Johnson

I do.

Brett Johnson

I love it but.

Brett Johnson

But if you have security that’s based on profit, that becomes a problem all of a sudden.

Brett Johnson

You have to have regulation and then you add in an administration that says hey.

Brett Johnson

Not going to get it from us, that’s an issue.

Brett Johnson

That’s a huge issue because at the end of the day it’s it’s like Clintons, it’s like Hillary Clinton book.

Brett Johnson

It takes a village.

Brett Johnson

It does.

Brett Johnson

We have to look after each other.

Brett Johnson

Verticals have to look after each other.

Brett Johnson

The siloed approach to secure.

Brett Johnson

30 doesn’t work anymore. We have to look after each other. We have these romance victims or these telephone scam victims that they walk into Sephora and they buy $30,000 worth of gift cards.

Brett Johnson

There’s a whole lot wrong with that.

Brett Johnson

Yes, certainly the victims shouldn’t have walked in there about 30 K in gift cards, but the cashier that sold those.

Brett Johnson

Gift cards.

Brett Johnson

They really didn’t think anything was wrong seriously, so we have to start looking after each other.

Brett Johnson

That’s what it’s going to take.

Brett Johnson

I mean criminals collaborate all the time until we start collaborating and doing the same.

Brett Johnson

We’re always going to be behind that curve, so that’s what it’s going to take.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Thank you.

Brett Johnson

Yes Sir, thank you.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

We’ve arrived at at the end of our allotted time, and I’m so incredibly appreciative for you.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Taking the time to talk to me today and having this conversation with us.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

It’s been.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Eye opening as always and and again thank you so much for for being my guest.

Brett Johnson

No, I I love it Tim.

Brett Johnson

I love you guys.

Brett Johnson

You keep up the great work you all are doing.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

We appreciate that so this has been a presentation of the Society of citizens against relationship scams. This video is copyright 2021 stars. To learn more about our organization, visit www.againstscams.org.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

To learn more about cyber crimes scams, particularly relationship and romance scams, visit www.romancescamsnowcom. Remember to report scams. Visitanyscam.com the FBI’s IC three website, ic3.gov.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

And also the FTCFTC The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is an independent agency of the United States government whose principal mission is the enforcement of civil (non-criminal) U.S. antitrust law and the promotion of consumer protection. The FTC can also act as a clearinghouse for criminal reports sent to other agencies for investigation and prosecution. To learn more visit www.FTC.gov or to report fraud visit ReportFraud.FTC.gov’s website whichisreportfraud.gov.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Those are the essential reporting tools in every report matters, even if they don’t contact you after you’ve made your report, that information accumulates and empowers the government to perform investigations than to make arrests.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Again, thank you to my guest

Brett Johnson

, advisor to the FBI and the corporate America.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

A great job that you do in an outstanding public speaker and thank you so much for being with me today.

Brett Johnson

Thank you Tim.

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

All right?

Tim McGuinness Ph.D.

Thank you again

Brett Johnson

Alright, that was good.

Essential Tools For Every Scam Victim From SCARS

Each is based on our SCARS Team’s 30 plus years of experience.

SCARS GREN BOOK - The SCARS STEPS Guide to Scam Victim Recovery

SCARS GREEN BOOK
Self-Help Self-Paced Recovery Program Guide

LEARN HOW TO RECOVER ON YOUR OWN

This program is designed to help scam victims struggling to recover on their own and for those who want to understand the overall process. You can be using other resources, such as trauma counselingCounseling Counseling is the professional guidance of the individual by utilizing psychological methods especially in collecting case history data, using various techniques of the personal interview, and testing interests and aptitudes. A mental health counselor (MHC), or counselor, is a person who works with individuals and groups to promote optimum mental and emotional health. Such persons may help individuals deal with issues associated with addiction and substance abuse; family, parenting, and marital problems; stress management; self-esteem; and aging. They may also work with "Social Workers", "Psychiatrists", and "Psychologists". SCARS does not provide mental health counseling. or therapy, qualified support groupsSupport Groups In a support group, members provide each other with various types of help, usually nonprofessional and nonmaterial, for a particular shared, usually burdensome, characteristic, such as romance scams. Members with the same issues can come together for sharing coping strategies, to feel more empowered and for a sense of community. The help may take the form of providing and evaluating relevant information, relating personal experiences, listening to and accepting others' experiences, providing sympathetic understanding and establishing social networks. A support group may also work to inform the public or engage in advocacy. They can be supervised or not. SCARS support groups are moderated by the SCARS Team and or volunteers., or completely independent – on your own!

The SCARS Steps program is a complete program and is provided for the purpose of helping scam victims to overcome this experience. Throughout this SCARS Steps Program, we speak about issues and challenges that a victim may have and help guide them through their recovery. But each person is different and it is important to understand your own reasons for being vulnerable to being scammed.

After the trauma of being scammed, you need to take steps to recover and move on. This may be an alternative to counseling in the short term, but we still encourage you to seek out professional help & support. Throughout this SCARS Steps Program, we speak about issues, challenges, defects, or problems that a victim may have in a generalized way.

The SCARS GREEN BOOK will help you recover from your scam offline and it will always be there when you need it!

Get it here

SCARS BLUE BOOK - Survivor's Recovery Journal

SCARS BLUE BOOK
A Unique SurvivorSurvivor A Scam Survivor is a victim who has been able to fully accept the reality of their situation. That they were the victim of a crime and are not to blame. They are working on their emotional recovery and reduction of any trauma either on their own, through a qualified support organization, or through counseling or therapy. And has done their duty and reported the crime to their local police, national police, and on Anyscam.com’s Recovery Journal

THE PERFECT DAILY JOURNAL FOR SCAM VICTIMS IN RECOVERY

Give yourself the perfect tool to measure and track your recovery progress while getting the therapeutic benefit of journaling!

This official SCARS Self-Help Recovery Program Journal allows you to record your journey day by day, to be able to look back and see your progress, and measure your achievements. While this is a difficult time in your life, it will get better in time and journaling is an important way to help you through many of those moments, but also to show yourself how strong you are!

The Official SCARS BLUE BOOK is your way of recording this struggle and help yourself through it.

A special discount is available when buying 3 at a time.

Get it here

SCARS RED BOOK - Your Personal Scam Evidence & Crime Record Organizer

SCARS RED BOOK
Your Personal Scam Evidence & Crime Record Organizer

ORGANIZE YOUR INFORMATION TO MAKE THE REPORTING PROCESS SIMPLE!

Helps you get and stay organized. This publication is to help Scam Victims organize their crime information. Complete this information before reporting to the police then bring this book with you

Before or after reporting to the police the RED BOOK gives you a dedicated tool to record all the essential facts of this crime. The Victim, the Scammers, the Money, and your Police interactions. Everything that really matters can be easily recorded for your immediate use and for the future!

As we have seen, money recovery/repayment programs can become available years after the scam ends and you need to keep all the details of this crime in case it is needed. We have also seen scammers being extradited to the U.S. and other countries, this will help in the event you testify or give statements, Additionally, this helps you have your information ready to qualify for victims’ benefits, compensation, or aid.

The Official SCARS RED BOOK is your way of recording all the important facts of this crime so that you do not lose essential information, Complete the RED BOOK then put it away with the confidence that you will have it if or when it is needed.

Get it here

SCARS LIME BOOK - Wisdom & Motivation for Scam Victims

SCARS LIME BOOK
Wisdom & Motivation for Scam Victims

A SURVIVOR’S GUIDE FOR MOTIVATION & WISDOM ABOUT SCAMS & RECOVERY

After the scam, life is filled with challenges and uncertainty. So many things are going wrong and how do you recover from the experience. There is a way. In the SCARS GREEN BOOK we present the complete SCARS Steps Recovery Program, but there is more to it.

You need to keep yourself motivated and understand that you are not the first person to go through this. The SCARS LIME BOOK helps you stay positive and motivated, and gain the wisdom that comes from helping millions of scam victims that SCARS has done.

This small book is packed with motivational insights and survivor wisdom to help you get up every day, make it through the through times, and sleep assured that time heals all emotional wounds.

The Official SCARS LINE BOOK is your way of reminding yourself every day that you are strong and can make it through this!

Get it here

SCARS SLATE BOOK - A Guide For Families & Friends Of Scam Victims

SCARS SLATE BOOK – A Guide For Families & Friends Of Scam Victims

HOW TO HELP ROMANCE SCAM VICTIMS FOR FAMILIES & FRIENDS OF SCAM VICTIMS

This SCARS Publishing book represents a complete guide to help the families and friends understand how these scams work and how to help the victim.

The SCARS Slate Book should be purchased by family and friends to better understand what happened to the victim and the traumatic impact on them. But it can also be shared by the victim so that they do not have to explain to family and friends about the scam. This publication is to help others to help Scam Victims to make it through this traumatic experience and recover.

Each person is different and it is important to understand how relationship scams work and why people are vulnerable; to being scammed, how they were lured in, then groomed and manipulated. This understanding is essential in helping them through the process of ending the scam and then on to recovery. The SCARS Slate Book will provide the information necessary to help support a victim through this process.

Get it here

SCARS PEARL BOOK - The SCARS Online Safety Password Log Book

SCARS PEARL BOOK – The SCARS Online Safety Password Log Book

AN ONLINE SAFETY TOOL FROM SCARS HELPS YOU TO STAY SAFE ONLINE!

We all know that we need to create and maintain stronger & safer passwords, but how can anyone possibly manage them? Actually, the process is not that hard with the right tools. Every only user needs to have two items: 1) a Password Manager App (such as LastPass or TrueKey), and 2) a master password log book!

But if you have a password manager app why do you need a logbook too? Because what if you are unable to access your password manager? What do you do then? The truth is that all software can be unavailable at times, or what do you do if you forget the password to your password manager? The answer is to have a backup logbook where you store all of your passwords in an organized way.

The SCARS PEARL BOOK helps to remind you about how to create strong passwords and how to keep them safe, but most importantly organizes all of your passwords in one place by accounts wor websites, making them easy to maintain and find when you need them.

Get it here

Find Real Scammer & Fake Stolen Photos On ScamsONLINE.org
The SCARS Scammer Photo Gallery Website
Click Here To Donate To SCARS

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Help others stay safe online – your knowledge can make the difference for both those being groomed and victims! The next victim might be your own family member or best friend!

SCARS the Society of Citizens Against Relationship Scams Incorporated

By the SCARS™ Editorial Team
Society of Citizens Against Relationship Scams Inc.

A Worldwide Crime Victims Assistance & Crime Prevention Nonprofit Organization Headquartered In Miami Florida USA & Monterrey NL Mexico, with Partners In More Than 60 Countries
To Learn More, Volunteer, or Donate Visit: www.AgainstScams.org
Contact Us: Contact@AgainstScams.org

Latest & Updated SCARS RomanceScamsNow.com Posts:

The World Online Is Not Safe For Those That Don’t Know!

REPORT-BLOCK-RECOVER

The Issue Of Race In Scam Reporting
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Disclaimer:

SCARS IS A DIGITAL PUBLISHER AND DOES NOT OFFER HEALTH OR MEDICAL ADVICE, LEGAL ADVICE, FINANCIAL ADVICE, OR SERVICES THAT SCARS IS NOT LICENSED OR REGISTERED TO PERFORM.

IN MANY SCARS ARTICLES, WE MENTION TOPICS INCLUDING TRAUMA, ABUSE, SELF-HARM, SUICIDALITY, RISKY BEHAVIORBehavior   Behavior / Behavioral Actions Otherwise known as habits, behavior or behavioral actions are strategies to help prevent online exploitation that target behavior, such as social engineering of victims. Changing your behavior is the ONLY effective means to reduce or prevent scams., DISORDERS, ADDICTION, AND OTHER PSYCHOLOGICAL CONDITIONS. THE INFORMATION IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR PROFESSIONAL MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF YOUR PHYSICIAN OR OTHER QUALIFIED HEALTH PROVIDERS WITH ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE.

IF YOU’RE FACING A MEDICAL EMERGENCY, CALL YOUR LOCAL EMERGENCY SERVICES IMMEDIATELY, OR VISIT THE NEAREST EMERGENCY ROOM OR URGENT CARE CENTER. YOU SHOULD CONSULT YOUR HEALTHCARE PROVIDER BEFORE FOLLOWING ANY MEDICALLY RELATED INFORMATION PRESENTED ON OUR PAGES.

ALWAYS CONSULT A LICENSED ATTORNEY FOR ANY ADVICE REGARDING LEGAL MATTERS.

A LICENSED FINANCIAL OR TAX PROFESSIONAL SHOULD BE CONSULTED BEFORE ACTING ON ANY INFORMATION RELATING TO YOUR PERSONAL FINANCES OR TAX RELATED ISSUES AND INFORMATION.

This content and other material contained on the website, appsApps Applications or Apps An application (software), commonly referred to as an ‘app’ is a program on a computer, tablet, mobile phone or device. Apps are designed for specific tasks, including checking the weather, accessing the internet, looking at photos, playing media, mobile banking, etc. Many apps can access the internet if needed and can be downloaded (used) either for a price or for free. Apps are a major point of vulnerability on all devices. Some are designed to be malicious, such as logging keystrokes or activity, and others can even transport malware. Always be careful about any app you are thinking about installing., newsletter, and products (“Content”), is general in nature and for informational purposes only and does not constitute medical, legal, or financial advice; the Content is not intended to be a substitute for licensed or regulated professional advice. Always consult your doctor or other qualified healthcare provider, lawyer, financial, or tax professional with any questions you may have regarding the educational information contained herein. SCARS makes no guarantees about the efficacy of information described on or in SCARS’ Content. The information contained is subject to change and is not intended to cover all possible situations or effects. SCARS does not recommend or endorse any specific professional or care provider, product, service, or other information that may be mentioned in SCARS’ websites, apps, and Content unless explicitly identified as such.

The disclaimers herein are provided on this page for ease of reference. These disclaimers supplement and are a part of SCARS’ website’s Terms of Use

Legal Notices: 

All original content is Copyright © 1991 – 2021 Society of Citizens Against Relationship Scams Inc. (D.B.A SCARS) All Rights Reserved Worldwide & Webwide. Third-party copyrights acknowledge.

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